Wednesday, October 15, 2008

Alien Natives...

However, there is one thing. I saw that two of the authors in the previous comment have suggested that, what they like to call, the aboriginals of Kashmir are the Kashmiri Pundits and the Kashmiri Muslims, “ the non-state subjects”, “all of them”, are the invaders or settlers who came from outside. Certainly, due to the forgetful nature of time, there exists no empirical evidence, which these authors can produce, to support this surmise. But we can, however, try to theorize taking into account certain known facts and experiences of other cultures. As far as “mythology” goes, I remember reading somewhere that it was Kashyp Rishi (the word Kashmir apparently derived from his name) a scholar from India who traveled north in search of greater truth or some such thing and finally reached the valley. After killing all the “demons” (Jalad Bhava, the leader of demons translates into “Water-Demon”), who might as well have been the local populace, decided to settle there along with his followers. This might give us a picture of who might be the “aboriginals” and who the foreigners in the Kashmir. It usually happens that whenever invaders come and settle in a place, the local population does all it can to distance itself from such invaders. This might explain the overnight conversion of the entire Kashmiri population to Islam. It is always the higher class, the ruling class that rejects change and tries to maintain status quo and in turn retain the power they have over the lower strata of the society. Maybe this is the reason why the decedents of Kashyp Rishi didn’t convert to Islam and preferred to carry on with the religion passed on to them by their forefathers. Kashmiri Pundits have always been the more influential, more educated class in Kashmir, a fact that they should be proud of. But one has to wonder why this distinction cuts across two criterions. Why one set of people were, both more powerful and at the same time of a particular faith? The only “logical” (we are famous for that, aren’t we?) conclusion can be drawn is that it is Kashmiri Pundits who are the decedents of foreign settlers and maybe that’s the reason why they find it so easy to dismiss every, political, historical and cultural, peculiarity of Kashmir and identify themselves with the Indian Dominion.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

well dude.. u need to tke a look into history by urself... dont try to write things based on sheer conjecture... rather try to be more pragmatic and logical..
u gave to take proper guidance in education so that u may come to know as who is invador and who is the victim.. i think the world knows it.. and deep inside .. u know it too..

Anonymous said...

Looks like a logical conclusion....

Killing the Jalad Bhave.."Give the dog a bad name and kill it"

He certainly would have been the leader of the local population...

Good work dude..

Anadhi said...

Well dear u hav done some hard work in typing so much ,but that doesnt make it a smart work.

Kashyap rishi lived thousands of years ago when ISLAM was not born even in the thoughts of somebody.If u know.ISLAm came into being in 731 A.D
.The first attacks on Kashmir were fromt he HUNS(Heard ATTILLA THE HUN ?)..they siezed kashmir but it ws won back by its hindu rulers ..the dynasty of Adityaraja to be specific.
But then gradualy ISLAM became a mighty force because of its fanatic invaders and they Won it over.

Sayeds from persia started coming in Hordes and converted people by guile.And then AURANGZEB became the ruler and used all his force to convert ppl to ISLAM...Remembr how he Got The SIKH GURU TEG BAHADUR ji,Killed mercilessely because he dint convert to ISLAM and he tried to stop the forcible conversions of KAshmiti Pundits.

And i dont say it frm my own ideas..It is all Recent History..recorded In RAJATARANGINImby the royal poet Kalhana of the erstwhile kaShmiri ROyal COurts.

Blogger said...

Anadhi has completely missed the whole point, probably because of prejudice!

It has nowhere been claimed that Kashyprishi attacked Muslims (Anyone would be out of his mind to suggest that!!)

It has been sugggested that KashypRishi attacked the aboriginals of Kashmir who would have been a small clan in Kashmir.

Decendants of KashypRishi are what even you agree, Kashmiri Pundits..

But what about the decendants of Jalad Bhava? (Who was "demonised" and killed)

Just re-read the whole article.

Blogger said...

Dear Anadhi,
"But then gradualy ISLAM became a mighty force because of its fanatic invaders and they Won it over."

See why Islam became a mighty force...

As far as “mythology” goes, I remember reading somewhere that it was Kashyp Rishi (the word Kashmir apparently derived from his name) a scholar from India who traveled north in search of greater truth or some such thing and finally reached the valley. After killing all the “demons” (Jalad Bhava, the leader of demons translates into “Water-Demon”), who might as well have been the local populace, decided to settle there along with his followers. This might give us a picture of who might be the “aboriginals” and who the foreigners in the Kashmir. It usually happens that whenever invaders come and settle in a place, the local population does all it can to distance itself from such invaders. This might explain the overnight conversion of the entire Kashmiri population to Islam.

Unknown said...

Utter crap!!!

While Kashmiri Pandits have indigenous Aryan genes those of Kashmiri Muslims are poluted with semitic genes of West Asia!

The truth - Kashmir is Aryan Homeland!

http://kashmiraryanhomeland.blogspot.com/

Blogger said...

Dear Surajcap, you have endorsed my point. Read on...

"According to general Indian legend, the Aryans arrived in north India somewhere from Iran and southern Russia at around 1500 BC. Before the Aryans, the Dravidian people resided in India. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India. "

Blogger said...

Mr Surajcap, All human beings are created equal by God. Please dont use derogatory words against any race/community/culture.

Blogger said...

"The caste system is believed to have been established by the Aryans. The fair skinned Aryans who occupied parts of India established the caste system, which allowed only them to be the priests (Brahman), aristocracy (Kshatria) and the businessmen (Vaisia) of the society. Below them in hierarchy were the Sudras who consisted of two communities. One community was of the locals who were subdued by the Aryans and the other were the descendants of Aryans with locals. In Hindu religious stories there are many wars between the good Aryans and the dark skinned demons and devils. The different Gods also have dark skinned slaves. There are stories of demon women trying to seduce good Aryan men in deceptive ways. There were also marriages between Aryan heroes and demon women. Many believe that these incidences really occurred in which, the gods and the positive heroes were people of Aryan origin. And the demons, the devils and the dark skinned slaves were in fact the original residence of India whom the Aryans coined as monsters, devil, demons and slaves. Normally the date given to Aryan invasion is around 1500 BC. But according to Hinduism experts some of the events in Hinduism occurred much earlier. Some of the events like the great war in the Mahabharta epic is believed to have occurred (based on astronomical research) 7000 years ago. "

Anonymous said...

Hi Blogger,

You are justifying the ethnic cleansing of KP from valley with your stupid theory.

Thanks and Regards

Anonymous said...

Excerpts from an interview of Dr. Farooq Abdullah..


Q. There is a continuous propaganda going on that Kashmiri Pandits were thrown out by the Kashmiri Muslims. Do you agree with that?

A. No I don’t agree with that. But the situation was such that they were frightened that they could be a target. And the Governor of that time Jagmohan told them to go away for some time promising them that they will be brought back.

Q. So Jagmohan instigated their exodus?

A. Yes of course he did it. I have always said that. I am on record to say that.

Q. What is your opinion about Jagmohan?

A. I think… I don’t think I should give an opinion about him.

Source:http://www.kashmiraffairs.org/interview_Farooq%20Abdullah.html

Anonymous said...

In urdu they say, Neem hakim, khatra-e-jaan. I remember reading a quote by someone(whose name and the exact wording of the quote I forget) to the effect that it is not complete ignorance that is the enemy of humanity, It is the little knowledge that kills.
I am amazed at how the above two sayings fit into the "muslims being outsiders" theory.
The propounders/supporters of the Hindu Rashtra/ Ram janm Bhumi and other such theories are invariably the ones who also further the 'Muslim invader' theory.
Underlying this theory, is an assumption that Hindus are the natives of India.
A natural question that should arise is-who are hindus?
Hinduism is essentially based on the Vedas/Puranas/Shruties/Smrities. Hindus beleive in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata.
Strange, as it might sound, All these are essentially Aryan and it is widely believed that it was the Aryans who invaded India and destroyed one of the finest 'indigenous' civilizations existing in the world at that time-that of the Dravidians. Now turning back to say that hindus are the only 'natives', is misconceived.

As far as I am concerned(and so should every law abiding citizen) an Indian citizen is defined under the citizenship Act 1955, which defines the varios ways in which one can become a citizen of India.
If these requirements are fulfilled, there can be no distinction between one citizen from another(that is what the constitution of India guarantees).
Having said that, every citizen is a product of the society he/she is born in. Naturally, no one is without prejudice/bias/sterotypes. The point is to get out of these stereotypes and acknowledge the fact that nothig is in black and white.One thing that helps you to do that is education.
Because of 1 Gujrat, I might think of all the Hindus as mass murderers. But that premise is as abhorrent to me as the beleif that "all muslims are terrorists".
I ask a question to a Hindu reader-would you have done what "Hindus" did in Gujrat. If your answer is yes, then it would not be wrong on my part to equate you to those murderers. However, If you also despise those acts, I would consider myself a murderer if treat you at par with the one's who did it. I see no reason why
Muslims should be treated differently.

There is one more point that I would like to make here.
It is regarding the way one treats 'history'. Invariably, people beleive 'history' to be an objective set of facts, without any subjective element to it.
The point I seek to make can not be made in a better manner than E.H Carr(Considered to be one of the greatest historians) did. I quote:
"The belief in a hard core of historical facts existing objectively and independently of the interpretation of the historian is a preposterous fallacy, but one which it is very hard to eradicate".

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Blogger said...

Dear readers,

some chocolate_popye recently spammed this post with irrelevant comments not pertaining to the post.

For information, complte chapters of History of Kashmiri Pundits by Jia Lal Kilam, which can be otherwise found at

http://www.kashmir-information.com/Kilam/index.html

were posted.

The reason why I say that they are irrelevant because the chapters pertain to a period around 1000-1500 years back.

Popye probably doesnt know the time period which the above post pertains to.

Perhaps, he forgot to take his "Spinach" ....!!!!