Reply to a discussion on http://planforindia.blogspot.com/2008/08/truth-about-holy-amarnath-cave-and.html
1. The shrine was discovered by a Kashmiri Muslim.
Response: According to a legend….
Reply to response:
Definition of Legend Oxford Concise English Dictionary: A traditional story popularly regarded as historical but which is not authenticated; Oxford Pocket English Dictionary: A traditional story from the past which may or may not be true
Definition of Puranas : eighteen ancient books consisting of legends and mythological narrations dealing with creation, recreation and the genealogies of sages and rulers
Definition of Mythology (Oxford Pocket English Dictionary): Set of widely held but exaggerated or false stories or beliefs.
2. The Yatra has always been conducted by Kashmiri Muslims
Response: Yes the yatra has been supported by the Malik family descendents but not conducted by them
Reply to response
Supported by Malik Family agreed. But who are the pony owners? Who give shelter to Yatris during storms? Who carry the old on their backs? For your information, they are all Muslims since you seem to have seen Kashmir only through the internet and through “mythological” stories.
3. No Yatri was ever harmed by a Kashmiri Muslim.
Response: Yes, numerous. Even this year some were killed at Bus Stand (5), grenade attack at Gulmarg, etc. Here are only some of them from previous years, it is a long list but i have taken only 3 years
Reply to response
Total No. of Kashmiri Muslims Killed (as per Govt. of India Statistics) since 1988 – 31,000
Total Number of Kashmiri Pandits Killed (as per your own blog): 361
It is grossly incorrect to term Kashmiri Muslims as terrorists. The statement “All terrorists are Kashmiri Muslims” can to an extent be a valid statement. But when you take the converse statement it is an utter violation of logical reasoning. The total Terrorist population by exaggerated estimates would be no more than 1% of the entire population.
Hence if you say Yatris were killed by Kashmiri Muslims, I suggest you go back to school and take a class in reasoning.
By the way, terrorists have no religion and have been misusing religion/race/creed since time immemorial across the world.
4. This year, we had record number of Yatris (more than 300,000) visiting the holy Shrine.
Response: Yes, that is good but it has nothing to do with the valley as the arrangements are done by the SASB. Generally Yatra’s world over are matter of faith and people endure great hardship to complete them. Kashmir being part of India, 300,000 or 3 million is no big deal.
Reply to response:
SASB had only 8 Hindu members - Justice (Retd) G D Sharma, Prof Vishnu Murti Shastri, Sunil Sachdeva, Manoj Gaur, Dr Vimla Dhar, Professor Neerja Mattoo, Raghu Modi and Dr Arun Kumar. The people who did the actual work on field were all Kashmiri Muslims. Thus, to say that just 8 people managed a gathering of 3,00,000 people is absolutely ridiculous.
5. Each and every Yatri had praises for the locals who fed them in spite of scanty supplies due to the economic blockage of the highway
Response: Well, that is what was the great sufi kashmiri culture that Paki’s wanted to destroy. This was the culture of Lal Ded and Rishi peer….
Reply to response
I absolutely agree with your statement. The primary aim of Pakistan is to destroy any and every system in India. They had been trying to disconnect the Valley from the rest of India for the past 20 years. When they didn’t succeed people in Jammu came to their aid. For God’s sake stop communalizing the whole issue.
6. Entire country including the 300,000 Yatris are fully satisfied with the arrangements
Response: Well, the arrangements were done by SASB.
Reply to response
As in point No 4
7. A handful of communal elements at Jammu have a problem.
Response: It is not as our P.M say “an issue of modalities”. It is a decision of how people will be treated. 400,000 pandits were forced out of their land, 361 were killed, their temples destroyed and sahbir shah, sajjad lone, yasin mailk and their likes are saying that Jammu has communal elements. Well it is like Pakistan accusing India of supporting Taliban
Reply to response
I’m sorry but I’ll again say that Jagmohan was responsible for the unfortunate uprooting of Kashmiri Pandits from the Valley. He planned to “cleanse” the Kasmiri separatists in an indiscriminate planned attack. He along with his agencies spread terror amongst the KPs and they used to send Military Trucks to aid the migration. Even today, 1100 KP families still live in the valley. Why did anyone not touch them?
Coming to issues at Jammu, we have heard all voices coming from Jammu and from Kashmir. The voices and actions from Jammu are categorically against Muslims to the extent that even houses of Gujjars are being destroyed and supplies to the valley have been stopped.
On the contrary, Kashmiris made all attempts to make the Yatra successful by all means. Who is communal?
8. The local Jammu Dogra has never in history protested like this.
Response: Well that is the point, their patience has now broken and the last straw in the camels backs was Omar Abdullah’s speech in the parliament. It is he who shouted “it is OUR LAND and we will die but not give it away”….
Reply to response
Excuse me; the land belongs to the people of Jammu as well, unless they choose not to associate themselves with the state. They have an equal right being state subjects. I agree that Kashmiri Pandits are also inhabitants of the land and Omar never disputed that in his speech. However, many of the Pandits chose to leave their homeland. I have read the other story about your childhood on your blog. But tell me how were Muslims different from Pandits. More Muslims who went against the terrorists were killed than Pandits. I will again reiterate that Jagmohan was responsible for the migration. Why did Sikhs and Christians never leave? Even after Chhati Singhpora incident? As I have already stated more than 31,000 Kashmiri Muslims have died due to Militancy, and the number excludes the number of Kashmiri Terrorists.
9. Some of the people who migrated from valley more than decade ago see this as an opportunity to take a revenge to rout out Muslims from Jammu
Response: Well again you are missing the point. Surely 20 years is a long time to take revenge. It is akin to agreeing that temporary structures 13000 feet at Baltal can be used for changing the demographic’s of the valley
Reply to response:
Well, if 20 years is a long time to take revenge, you would not have been blogging hatred today!
It is not about demographics. It is about pollution and contamination of ecology. The SASB started a helicopter service to add to the pollution. They were constructing permanent structures thereby destructing ecology. For evidence you may check their site at http://www.shriamarnathjishrine.com/amarnath-shrine-board.html
Moreover, if the Yatra is going on smoothly, isn’t it immaterial whether the land is transferred or not?
10. The Jammu Dogras have fallen prey to the game plan.
Response: same as above. Sadly, you are missing the point.
Reply to response
Same a/a
11. Who is benefiting from the protests?
Response: Sometimes, protests are done without immediate gains. What will be gained is that the fact that Kashmiri’s have got too much without doing anything. .…
Reply to response:
Pakistan & ISI are benefiting from the protests and from the economic blockade. Wake up!
12. Our soldiers have laid down their lives fighting militants to keep the National Highway open for the past 20 years.
Response: Yes, that is the point. The Highway is a scared piece if land for all and we cannot allow it to be used to pump in secessionist elements. Just for your information, an R.O.P (road opening party) of the army clearing the….
Reply to response:
Our soldiers died to keep the link open but our fellow citizens- brothers and citizens succeeded!
13. Whose cause are people at Jammu supporting?
Response: They are fighting for the cause of India and the right of an Indian over secessionists.
Reply to response:
By blocking the road they are supporting the plans of secessionists
14. Kashmiri Leaders want a unified state including Jammu/Kashmir/POK/Ladakh
Response: Sorry but that is not a consolation. It is and will remain unified as per the 1947 agreed boundaries. It is the writ of the Parliament that the P...
Reply to response
We want a unified state under India. Recent developments in Jammu aim at further dividing the state.
15. Protestors at Jammu want separate Jammu, Separate Kashmir, Separate KP Land, Separate Ladakh and maybe further slices of the flesh of our motherland.
Response: Haven’t heard that but there will always be multiple view points and that is the corner stone of democracy. People in valley who have been following nizam e Mustafa cannot and will not understand what a pluralistic….
Reply to response:
I’m sorry but Sikhs and Christians still continue to live in harmony with us. They, like us, never bowed down to terrorism. We have some of the leading schools run by Christian missionaries. Churches, Gurudwaras and temples and mosques continue with their religious proceedings.
If you now say that temples were destroyed, I would like you to find out how many mosques and shrines were destroyed by terrorists? Remember the destruction of one of the holiest shrines at Chraresharief? I again reiterate, terrorists don’t have any religion.
It is very unfortunate that sometimes ill informed individuals start to "blog" half-truths encouraging communalism. In the world today when everyone is striving towards peace, please use your efforts to contribute for a better tomorrow. Dont sow seeds of violence and hatred!
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2 comments:
Enlightening insights
Dear friend,
You have posted your discussion with another blogger
to my blog-BORN IN JULY. Though my posting has nothing to do with the subject matter of your discussion. I think you have done so because my posting is related to Jammu and the wrong politics of the Congress party initiated by Nehru.
In my blog post nowhere I write that Kashmiri Muslims en mass are anti-Indian. I have no grudges against the Muslims. In spite of that I published all the two comments of yours (meant for another unknown blog) in my blog. What make you shy -my friend to hide your name to someone who is also an Indian like you?
I published your comments. But as I find that it is related to the history of Amarnath Shrine I like to make my submission hereinbelow. If you feel yourself a neutral person in this matter-I would request you to publish this comment in full without editing.
"The caves of Amarnath are one of the most famous shrines in Hindu religion, dedicated to the god SHIVA, located in Jammu and Kashmir State in India. The shrine is claimed to be over 5,000 years old and forms an important part of ancient Hindu mythology
The Amaranth Cave was discovered by a Muslim shepherd of Batakot, Buta Malik, when he lost his flock and found that it had strayed into the sacred spot some 150 years ago. There is a documentary proof of this discovery. Even today his family receives some part of the alms offered by pilgrims. While the earliest reference to Amarnath can be seen in the Nilamata Purana (v.1324), a 6th century Sanskrit text which depicts the religious and cultural life of early Kashmiris and gives Kashmir’s own creation myth, the pilgrimage to the holy cave has been described with full topographical details in the Bhringish Samhita and the Amarnatha Mahatmya, both ancient texts said to have been composed even earlier. References to Amarnath, known have also been made in historical chronicles like the Rajatarangini and its sequels and several Western travellers’ accounts. The original name of the tirtha, as given in the ancient texts Amareshwara, Amarnath being a name given later to it.
Giving the legend of the Naga Sushruvas, who in his fury burnt to ashes the kingdom of King Nara when he tried to abduct his daughter already married to a Brahmin youth, and after the carnage took his abode in the lake now known as Sheshnag (Kashmiri Sushramnag), Kalahana writes:
“The lake of dazzling whiteness [resembling] a sea of milk (Sheshnag), which he created [for himself as residence] on a far off mountain, is to the present day seen by the people on the pilgrimage to Amareshwara.”(Rajatarangini, Book I v. 267.Translation: M. A. Stein).
At another place in the Rajatarangini (Book II v. 138), Kalhana says that King Samdhimat Aryaraja (34 BCE-17CE) used to spend “the most delightful Kashmir summer” in worshiping a linga formed of snow “in the regions above the forests”. This too appears to be a reference to the ice linga at Amarnath. There is yet another reference to Amareshwara or Amarnath in the Rajatarangini (Book VII v.183). According to Kalhana, Queen Suryamati, the wife of King Ananta (1028-1063), “granted under her husband’s name agraharas at Amareshwara, and arranged for the consecration of trishulas, banalingas and other [sacred emblems]”.
In his Chronicle of Kashmir, a sequel to Kalhana’s Rajatarangini, Jonaraja relates that that Sultan Zainu’l-abidin (1420-1470) paid a visit to the sacred tirtha of Amarnath while constructing a canal on the left bank of the river Lidder (vv.1232-1234). The canal is now known as Shah Kol.
In the Fourth Chronicle named Rajavalipataka, which was begun by Prjayabhatta and completed by Shuka, there is a clear and detailed reference to the pilgrimage to the sacred site (v.841,vv. 847-849). According to it, in a reply to Akbar’s query about Kashmir Yusuf Khan, the Mughal governor of Kashmir at that time, described among other things the Amarnath Yatra in full detail.
Amareshwar (Amarnath) was a famous pilgrimage place in the time of the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan also. In his eulogy of Shah Jahan’s father-in-law Asif Khan, titled “Asaf Vilas”, the famous Sanskrit scholar and aesthete Panditraj Jagannath makes clear mention of Amareshwara (Amarnath) while describing the Mughal garden Nishat laid out by Asif Khan. The King of gods Indra himself, he says, comes here to pay obeisance to Lord Shiva.
Francois Bernier, a French physician, accompanied Emperor Aurangzeb during his visit to Kashmir in 1663. In his book “Travels in the Mughal Empire”, he writes an account of the places he visited in Kashmir that he was “pursuing journey to a grotto full of wonderful congelations, two days journey from Sangsafed” when he “received intelligence that my Nawab felt very impatient and uneasy on account of my long absence”. The editor of the second edition of the English translation of the book, Vincient A. Smith, writes in his introduction: “The grotto full of wonderful congelations is the Amarnath cave, where blocks of ice, stalagmites formed by dripping water from the roof are worshipped by many Hindus who resort here as images of Shiva…..”
Another traveler, Vigne, in his book “Travels in Kashmir, Ladakh and Iskardu” writes about the pilgrimage to the sacred spot in detail, mentioning that “the ceremony at the cave of Amarnath takes place on the 15th of the Hindoo month of Sawan” and that “not only Hindoos of every rank and caste can be seen collecting together and traveling up the valley of Liddar towards the celebrated cave……”. Vigne visited Kashmir after his return from Ladakh in 1840-41 and published his book in 1842. His book claims that the Amarnath Yatra drew pilgrims from the whole of India in his time and was undertaken with great enthusiasm.
Guru Arjan Dev is said to have granted land in Amritsar for the ceremonial departure of Chari, the holy mace of Lord Shiva which marks the beginning of the Yatra to the Holy Cave. In 1819, the year in which the Afghan rule came to an end in Kashmir, Pandit Hardas Tiku “founded the Chhawni Anmarnath at Ram Bagh in Srinagar where the Sadhus from the plains assembled and where he gave them free rations for the journey, both ways from his own private resources”, as the noted Kashmiri naturalist Pandit Samsar Chand Kaul has pointed out in his booklet titled “The Mysterious cave of Amarnath”.
Amarnath is deeply enshrined in Kashmiri folklore, such as the story of Soda Wony.
The temple is reported to be about 5,000 years old and was mentioned in ancient Hindu texts. The exact manner of discovery of the cave is not known."
WE INDIANS-BOTH MUSLIMS AND HINDUS MUST WORK HAND IN HAND AS BROTHERS TO FOIL ALL EVIL DESIGNS OF PAKISTAN FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TWO COMMUNITIES.
My best regards.
Harmony,
Peace.
Devabrata
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